Speaker 1 00:00:11 Hello and welcome to the Strengthening Your Marriage podcast, Jeremy Haley. Here again, we're at episode three and we've entitled this episode Enabled to Live a New Reality. Before we unpack that in some detail, I thought we would recap where we were last week. Last week was Rebuilding Shattered Dreams and, and really I guess what we were talking about is this idea that God takes us through the painful experience of our expectations for marriage, going unmet and realizing that marriage wasn't what we had in our heads. It wasn't our ideal dream that we had thought up, but part of that process, there's actually a lot of hope in experiencing that disillusionment, uh, because that's God's pathway to helping us to see that there's something better that he has in store for our marriage. And so, I guess we spoke a bit about that last week. The nature of these things with conversations is that you chat, you chat some more, and then afterwards things are crystallized further and you're thinking, we had a few further thoughts from last week that that got a bit clearer for us.
Speaker 1 00:01:11 And I guess what Hailey was saying was that you were looking to me Haley to, to validate you as a person. Yeah. That's really what you were saying, wasn't it, at the heart of it. Yeah. Uh, that was a dynamic of what you were looking for. And for me, I was looking for marriage to support really my importance. So very similar, just different ways of trying to validate ourselves, trying to make ourselves into something that we wanted to be. And Hailey, you also had some further thoughts from last week about what it looked like for us continuing to live out, um, something better that God's calling us to for marriage and, and particularly being proactive. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:01:49 I think something that I was encouraged by in the talks we're listening to by Paul Tripp was example he gave of his marriage with Loa and how she wakes up in the morning and instead of the first thing being on her mind, what have I got to do today? What have I got on? What things are important to me? All of that to do with her, her own sphere. I guess the first thing that was on her mind was Paul and what his day would be like and how he might be feeling and what his night's rest was like. And I just thought that was quite inspiring and just helpful to think about. It's not just reacting to situations when they come up and you realize that you're still living the old dream and you need to go, okay, that's not what we want to be doing. We need to correct here. It's actually being proactive and thinking about how can I love this person? How can I be thinking about this person in a way that's wanting their good? And how can I be evaluating where they're at and how I can be a blessing to them and help them and ease things for them <laugh>?
Speaker 1 00:02:47 Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so last week you came away with that sense from our conversation that, oh, we talked a bit about the giving up the self focus. Yeah. And that's adjusting in the moment when things don't go your way. Yeah. But actually what God's calling us is there something further than that again? Yeah. Which is this proactive stance that's deliberately thinking about what's good for the other person. Yeah. And ahead of time not, not just responding in the unexpected moments. Yeah. So that's part of it too. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:03:15 In the same way that we'd normally do that for ourselves. Mm-hmm. It's always ticking away in the back of our heads kind of thing. Mm-hmm. But to do that for others is a very inspiring way to live. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:03:25 So instead of me being at work, looking forward to heading home and eating some dinner and going through the routines, the things that I might look forward to as if I'm my own person, functionally functioning as an individual mm-hmm. <affirmative>, that's actually thinking about you and your day and the opportunity to catch up with you. The opportunity to catch up with the kids and to hear from them, rather than thinking I'm in my own kind of bubble and my own world who someone who lives independently. It's that being wrapped up in those who are around me and thinking about them. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 00:04:01 Yeah. Related to that, we were talking about how oftentimes we are better at pinpointing the things that are wrong, or at least that's my natural tendency anyway. Pinpointing things that are wrong and seeing where our hearts are going astray and seeing the selfishness and what we need to move away from. And we have some, something of a sense of what we should be moving to, but oftentimes we don't have a clear enough vision of, or specific enough vision of what that looks like on the ground. And to have that vision in our mind more, I think would help us to be more captivated by the beauty of God's design and more excited about moving towards it. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>, I think.
Speaker 1 00:04:43 Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. So one of my counseling lecturers, David Palon, has been very formative for me. And he talked about this from to nature of repentance. I don't know what your understanding of the word repentance is. Maybe that's a religious jargony word for you. Often people can think about it as being sorry for things that we've done wrong. But this nature of the word in the Bible is actually this 180 degree turn where you're coming from something and to something else, from producing a thorn to producing a fruit or flower, something beautiful from producing something in your life characteristic, a way of relating that is quite ugly and destructive to actually producing something that's beautiful and good for those around you. And David Palon talked about the fact that God opens our eyes to see new vistas of experience. And I found that really helpful for, for me, it conjuress up places that I think are really beautiful trips to places like Tasmania that just awaken my sense of beauty.
Speaker 1 00:05:44 Looking out on a scene in front of me that I've not seen before. It's just beautiful living a Christian life is, is actually like that God by his spirit opening our eyes to these beautiful realities. And I think what you're saying is that there's something really concrete that ought capture us about where God's taking us from specific unhelpful patterns of relating in our marriages to specific good ways of relating that are rich and helpful and beneficial that create unity and trust, closeness, those kind of things. Yeah. We've titled this episode Enabled to Live a New Reality. And I guess what we are getting at is that something better that we spoke about last week, that giving up of whatever we imagined marriage to be for the new reality God's wanting to work out in our lives, God actually gives us what we need to live that out.
Speaker 1 00:06:38 And so we're wanting to focus on this idea of God enabling us, God actually helping us. He doesn't leave us on our own and he doesn't leave us to our poor track record. Perhaps you think of your track record in marriage and think, well, what hope of our God to change. I know that I'm a failure, I, I keep stuffing up. Maybe my, your anger gets the best of you or particular ingrained patterns of controlling others around you or whatever your unhealthy patterns of response may be. You, you may think you're just trapped and that's all you can ever live up to. But God actually gives us resources to carve out a new way of living. And yeah, we're wanting to focus on that. So I guess we're wanting to ask you as the listener, hopefully you're able to, to listen if you are married together with your partner and just discuss this.
Speaker 1 00:07:25 But it's still gonna be really helpful, I think if you think about this on your own. The first question is, what does a new reality of marriage look like for you? What does a new reality of marriage look like for you? And maybe you could pick something quite specific, one scene of your life where you know that things tend to go wrong, where you're prone to an unhealthy pattern of response. And sit down and think about that. What would that look like if you responded in a healthy way? Instead, what would that mean in that very situation? My second question for you is, what does it mean for you to know that God enables you to live that new reality? What does it mean for you to know that God enables you to live that new reality? I guess these two questions are really gonna shape some of the things we're gonna be talking about from our firsthand experience of what God's been doing in us and where we're at at the moment, where we've still got a ways to go in growing in our marriage. And so, Haley, one of the things that struck you from the Paul trip seminars we've been watching was this idea of a new way of living. And that the kind of picture that the Bible does create this idea that Paul Trip talks about of having the marriage of your dreams. Mm. Do you wanna share a bit about that? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:08:44 So he was talking about a passage in the Bible that talks about what it means to live the new reality that, that God has for us. So it's Galatians chapter five, and he talks about the characteristics, I guess, that come from living God's way.
Speaker 1 00:09:02 So in Galatians five 16 it says, so I say, walk by the Spirit and you'll not gratify the desires for flesh. So the idea is that God, by His spirit helps us as weak people, uh, who on our own are unable to do what it takes to live this fruitful, healthy kind of way in a marriage. That's just not what comes naturally to us. That's kind of the destructive patterns of the patterns of the flesh. This pattern of self, self-orientation that approaches marriage and, and comes with selfish dreams that actually really don't, don't work and don't match the way God's made a marriage to work. There's this alternative and it's being equipped, being enabled, being empowered by the person of God's spirit who changes us to live in new ways. And so, ha was kind of grouped by some of what those new ways are in this passage, and maybe you're familiar with it, but maybe you haven't actually thought about how that might reshape your relationship with your spouse. So Haley, do you wanna share a bit more about that? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:10:05 I guess the picture he was painting of living that way was just drawing out the characteristics that, that the passage talks about as coming to characterize us as we live by the spirit rather than a normal, selfish way. And just talking about what it would be like to live in a marriage that's like that. So it talks about love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. And just what it would be like to have a spouse who was like that, who was always loving, who was always joyful, who loved peace, who was willing to bear with difficult things, <laugh> in the other person who's always kind, was always good. He was completely faithful. He was always gentle and always self controlled. But that is exactly the kind of spouse that you would want to have and want to be. And that's the things that come to characterize your marriage as you listen to God and begin to live out his new pattern. Yeah. As he enables you by his spirit rather than living the old dream that we talked about last week.
Speaker 1 00:11:15 Hmm. So I guess let's just unpack some of those words with a bit of concreteness. So peace is probably something that God has been forming in us. And the way I understand that is that kind of peace the Bible wants is not something superficial, but it's the ability to have robust conversations so that real peace can be established. And that's working through differences. That's something that we've been learning to do as the trust in our marriage has grown, so that a real peace can exist between us. Uh, and I tend to be a conflict avoider, would
Speaker 2 00:11:49 You say? So do I. Yeah. <laugh>. Yeah. So we tend to be like, have a superficial or like a fake piece <laugh>.
Speaker 1 00:11:56 Yeah. Yeah. The difference is between keeping the peace that superficial Mm. Or or making peace, which is something, something deeper that's happy to put up with some disruption and some feeling uncomfortable and there being some tension in order that something deeper might be built. Yeah. And the relationship might, might be founded on something more solid and dependable.
Speaker 2 00:12:18 So you come to more unity rather than just superficially not having conflict
Speaker 1 00:12:22 <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:12:24 I guess, um, another thing that struck me was the idea of joy. And that's been something that I think God's been putting his finger on in me. Paul Trip talked about the d n A of joy being thankfulness. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I never thought of myself as being an un ungrateful person, but I think I can be, I can tend to look at the negative of things. Mm-hmm. And just the deliberate pattern of thankfulness being what produces joy. And I think that's been a huge thing for me in our marriage as well. I remember at one point feeling unappreciated by you and then I turned the question back on myself and thought, well, do I appreciate you <laugh>? And from that point, yeah, I thought, well, actually I think I can be quite negative. And from that point, the decision to actually be deliberately thankful grew into really enjoying you <laugh> and seeing so much good that was always there, but I wasn't always seeing. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:13:29 That's helpful. Yeah. There's this idea of forbearance, which can also be translated as patients or insurance. I guess what that brings up for me is not having that immediate response of anger or frustration in those little things that go wrong. It be okay to share this. Haley, you would say you tend to be quite forgetful. <laugh>. And the number of times keys have gone lost in our marriage has been quite, quite a lot.
Speaker 1 00:14:03 And so it's easy in those moments for my first response to, to construct this interpretation, which is if only Haley wasn't like X, but like Y <laugh>. But over time, God's building a, a patience, a realization of the fact that we all have different strengths and weaknesses and maybe remembering specific things isn't one of Haley's. And the need to be okay when things like that happen and to be patient and to endure, it's kind of bearing with one another's weaknesses rather than seeing that as putting you out and, and looking for the good that God's wanting to do in me personally, when things go wrong. There was an occasion recently where Haley had accidentally taken my set of keys with her after the school drop off. And I needed a set of keys for my bike so I could lock it up when I got to work.
Speaker 1 00:14:57 And I felt that tendency to get worked up and riled up over the situation. I knew it was gonna make me late. I was gonna need to wait for her to get back before I could ride into work. In a sense, God, God calming me in that moment, me accepting the reality that this situation must be on my control. And that in that moment, God was doing me good in having to sit still before leaving the office. And this wasn't primarily a, a pattern of blaming Haley and pointing the finger and an entitled attitude where I had the right to be angry. And how dare you do something like that <laugh> that was learning to be calm and to work through that unexpected, small, trivial moment <laugh> together for one another's good rather than to get wound up and distressed. I guess faithfulness was one that probably challenged me a bit with pull, pull trips, talks, I think because sometimes I'm wanting to please you, and particularly when my workload has spiraled out of control in recent weeks at at work, I might want to give you an earlier indication of when I'm gonna get home than when I actually get home.
Speaker 1 00:16:13 And part of that, part of that's that I'm just not very good at estimating time, but part of that is wanting to please you. But, but inevitably by not setting a realistic expectation, I can follow, be able to follow through on what I say. But just this goodness in being honest with one another, I've started to try not to give the same degree of timeframes just to say that I don't know, I've stuck here, I don't know, as being more helpful. And yeah, there's something that's just really good about being able to trust someone's words to you and knowing that they'll follow through on what they say. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:16:56 <affirmative>. Yeah. Just thinking about gentleness as well. I think just what I was talking about last week in terms of my expectations for marriage, a big difference between, um, raising an issue because I felt hurt and I wanted you to understand how hurt I felt, or I wanted you to change something like raising something for your good and coming with that as my primary desire completely changes how I bring it up. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>. And I think gentleness is something that comes from that different place. 'cause I think when it came out with a lot of emotion, it was actually really hurtful and hard for you to hear mm-hmm. <affirmative>. Whereas when I'm able to come Yeah. More gently and with your good in mind mm-hmm. <affirmative> and raise it maybe more, more slowly or in a more edited way, having thought it through more and what is gonna be helpful mm-hmm. That makes a big difference to the kind of conversation that comes from that. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:18:03 Yeah. Yeah. I think self-control is a huge one about that as well. And it relates to things that I might bring up. I, I think I have a tendency towards anger and going with my emotions. When something goes wrong, something's not going my way, I get riled up. But I guess self-control is learning to be more measured in how I respond and not going with that instinctual first response or letting that initial emotional reaction to something just sit for a while before I do anything with it. That's part of self-control. And I guess the nature of not having self-control, the nature of going with anger when it's unreasonable is that it becomes inflammatory. Mm-hmm. One of the things portrait says is about the fact that we can take things personally that weren't intended to be personal. And then when we do that and we, we are angry, it actually kind of starts a war with the other person.
Speaker 1 00:19:04 We make them our enemy. And there's this big gap that forms between you and you're actually against one another rather than together working through whatever the problem or trouble issue is in front of you. And so I think self-control is, is a huge part of that, of learning to reign in whatever that typical default, instinctive first response might be. Yeah. Learning to hold back and think through how you can not take something personally, but how you can work through it constructively if that's something that's been raised by the other person. Something that feels like criticism and makes you wanna jump up and down and defend yourself. Learning to take a deep breath and to stay calm, to think how hard it might've been for you to raise that thing that you've raised, or over time to realize that there's a characteristic pattern of you seeking my good, that you only raised things because you want to do good. You want closeness in our marriage. Remembering those kind of things can be helpful rather than the situation being inflamed. Responding to an destructive path is like throwing petrol on a fire. Yeah. It goes outta control. Yeah. So self-control is, is pretty crucial. Mm-hmm. <affirmative>.
Speaker 2 00:20:18 So Jeremy was a particular passage that had a big impact on you in terms of things turning around in our marriage. Did you want to talk a bit more about that?
Speaker 1 00:20:28 Yeah. I guess it wasn't just marriage either. It was kind of all of life. Yeah. Yeah. It was pretty groundbreaking for me was this passage in the Bible two Peter chapter one, three and four. And God talks about his power being given to us, him giving us everything that we need for a godly life through our knowledge of him who's called us by his own glory and goodness. I, I guess in a nutshell what that means is that God doesn't call me to live a certain way without giving me what I need to do it, what I need to live it out. And why that's really powerful for me is that I, I got stuck in a place where I'd respond to situations and I'd throw my hands up in the air thinking, this is rubbish. What's happening to me right now is rubbish. And I came to see that that's kind of a subset of grumbling this attitude that's like throwing things back in God's face and saying, no, I don't want this.
Speaker 1 00:21:28 I don't wanna face this. This isn't what I want right now. But related to things that Hailey shared earlier in the series, I learned to separate out what happened to me. External situations, which might be hard things to my response, if you, if you hear that response, this is rubbish. It kind of sounds like I'm a passive victim that's just controlled by whatever happens to me. Uh, but actually the Bible says I'm an active responder to what happens to me. And I guess part of that thinking, this is rubbish. And then hearing the Bible's teaching of knowing that God's calling me to something else. It's like this responsible, I, I can't do it. I can't. That was my inner world, my self-talk. I was saying I can't, but this passage kind of came at a really critical time and it broke through that because what it actually says is, I can, I can not, not by my strengths.
Speaker 1 00:22:22 So, so where this is different to the power of positive thinking, if you've heard that kind of school of thought, it's, it's not just changing an I can't to an I can and trying to convince myself that somehow I'm able to manufacture new patterns of behavior and responding to life and relating, but it's actually God promises to give me just what I need in the moment to respond in new, helpful ways. He's given me everything that I need for life and godliness. I guess that was in that last passage, Galatians five, walking by the Spirit. It's this idea of God's spirit giving us power and, and new ways to live, giving us his resources for a new life and for me for a while, like I, I sat in that passage, but kind of didn't, didn't impact me. I was like, well, how do you get in touch with the power I need?
Speaker 1 00:23:17 Like, I spent time praying. I thought, you know, somehow I'll feel different. But, but actually I think it was a change in mindset. And it was just knowing that in situations where I knew I wasn't responding in the way God wanted to me to as a parent or in our, in our relationship, instead of that response of saying, well, I can't do that was actually right now, God's given me what I need to do, what he's calling me to do. It's a shift in mindset. I have everything I need to live out this new response. So for me, one of the things I've found difficult is having crowded evenings. Now we've got three kids, evenings feel more crowded, and sometimes I'm getting home a little bit later from work than what I used to. And there's quite a bit of pressure in those evening times, having dinner early, feeding amber, perhaps bathing the kids if that hasn't happened yet, helping them with a bit of a wind down routine with stories and praying with them before bed, that kind of thing.
Speaker 1 00:24:16 The things that are important. And I think before I used to resent all of that and think that that's not what I signed up for. I wanted more time to myself and I'd convinced myself that that's what I really needed. Whereas I've started to realize that that no, that the good god's calling me to do, like that's at the heart of it. Those times, those crowded evenings are not things to be pushed aside and seen as disruptions, but actually the critical place where meaningful interaction and relationship happens both with our kids and with one another. And so I'm learning to handle the unexpected of a late bedtime or, you know, a visitor coming or phone call, even once we've got the kids down, when I, when I thought it might be quieter, I'm learning to handle that better. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:25:06 <affirmative>. And you talked about before, um, the connection between your relationship with God and relationship with others, and particularly a psalm that you sat with.
Speaker 1 00:25:17 Yeah. So I think that idea of wanting to escape and run away from my situation, that's kind of idea of a crowded evening, and that being not what I wanted, I've come to realize that actually there's a very close relationship between loving God and loving others. And so those crowded evenings are where my love for God is worked out in practice as I deal with something you might ask me to do in the middle of a kid's routine, or one of the kids is having trouble at the toilet or whatever it is in that moment by loving them and dealing with what's come up, I'm actually loving God, <laugh>. And I guess that whole idea of being stripped back of my desires, I spent a bit of time in Psalm 131, and I, I love that psalm as David, who was king of Israel, who is in a very powerful, influential position, says that he's learned what it is to, to not be proud.
Speaker 1 00:26:12 He's contended himself like a wean child. And I guess the counter picture of that is this restless, fussing child just set on having milk and determined to have what they want and, and restless, crying, upset, worked up until they get it. Uh, but he says he's not like that. He's like a wean child, learn to be content. I, again, that means his desires have been stripped back. I think, I think God's been doing something like that in me, and part of it's been understanding that at the same time as some of those things that I was wanting too much, he's, he's actually been giving me just what I need to handle those crowded evenings, those tricky points in life that I had been a bit daunted by. Mm-hmm. He's actually giving me exactly what I need to, to, to live out what he's calling me to do <laugh>. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:27:03 Mm-hmm. And I guess the idea of God's agenda being transformation for us, and he's got something better for us. Mm-hmm. He's transforming us into something beautiful, something, um, yeah. That we were made for. And that all those times are orchestrated for that purpose, and those relationships are orchestrated for that purpose as well. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 00:27:28 <affirmative>. Yeah. So last week I mentioned that another thing that Paul trips likes to say is that sin is Andy's social. And I can see that when I desire that space on my own too much. Like I imagine a father who's like that all the time, he just does his own thing and is not involved with kids or a husband who does that. Like, that's, that's my default tendency, but God's giving me a desire and a picture of something different that's so much better for those around me. Mm-hmm. That just enriches our relationships within the family and our relationship with one another. Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2 00:28:05 Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:28:12 So hopefully this has been helpful for you, I guess, in taking this truth of being enabled to live a new reality in your marriage, taking that and making it personal, I wanna recap those questions I asked earlier. I think it'd be really helpful if you could chat about this with your partner. If not, at least bring this to God, speak to him about it, get a pen and paper and write out your thoughts. The two questions were, what does a new reality of marriage look like for you? Perhaps you want to open up Galatians chapter five and look at those fruits of the spirit and ask yourself, what are those particular character qualities? What would they look like in the details of my marriage?
Speaker 1 00:29:00 And the second question was, what does it mean for you to know God enables you to live this new reality, knowing that he doesn't call you to it without giving you what you need to do it. Thanks for tuning in. Again, just to reiterate, if there's anyone out there who, uh, would like to catch up with me at some point and talk about marriage stuff, I'm available again. I, I work as a pastoral counselor for the Joshua Tree, Peter Sham, and Ashfield Presbyterian Church, and I'm available to meet up. So feel free to get in touch. You can email me at
[email protected] au.
